Question 1

Why is the word çocukların in the genitive case (-ın)?

Accepted Answer

Because in the “permission” pattern with izin var/yok/vermek, the doer (subject) of the action is marked with the genitive and the action is turned into a noun. The core pattern is:
- X-in Y-mA-sI-na izin var/yok = There is/isn’t permission for X’s doing Y.

Here: çocuk-lar-ın (children-GEN) + … kal-ma-sı-na (to their staying) + izin yok (no permission).

Question 2

What exactly is kalmasına made of? What does each suffix do?

Accepted Answer

Breakdown:
- kal- = stay
- -ma = verbal noun/nominalizer (“staying”)
- -sı = 3rd person possessive (“his/her/its/their staying,” structurally required here)
- -na = dative case “to/for”

Note: The -n- is a buffer letter that appears after 3rd person possessive -sı when another vowel-starting suffix (like -a/-e) follows. So: kal-ma-sı-na = “to (their) staying.”

Question 3

Why kalmasına and not kalmaya?

Accepted Answer

Because you explicitly name the subject in the genitive (çocukların). When the agent is in the genitive, the nominalized verb must carry the appropriate possessive (-sı here): çocukların … kalma-sı-na.

- With a stated agent: Çocukların dışarıda kalmasına izin yok. (Correct)
- Without stating who: In everyday speech you may see “-mAya izin yok” (e.g., Geç saatlere kadar dışarıda kalmaya izin yok). In more careful/formal style, with transitive verbs people often use a passive + -mesine (e.g., Fotoğraf çekilmesine izin yok). But as soon as you add a genitive subject like çocukların, you need -ması/-mesi.

Question 4

Can we say kalmalarına instead of kalmasına? What’s the difference?

Accepted Answer

Both are grammatical:
- kalmasına = 3rd person singular possessed form (default, very common for generic rules)
- kalmalarına = 3rd person plural possessed form

Nuance: The plural possessed form can highlight that multiple individuals are involved (each child’s staying). The singular possessed form treats the action more generically. In most rule-like statements, the singular possessed form (kalmasına) is preferred, but kalmalarına is also fine.

Question 5

Why is geç saatlere plural and in the dative? Could it be singular?

Accepted Answer

- It’s in the dative because the postposition kadar (“until, up to”) typically takes a dative-marked phrase: saat-ler-e kadar.
- It’s plural because the idiomatic expression is “geç saatler” (“late hours”).
- Use singular with a specific clock time: Saat on bire kadar (“until 11 o’clock”), not “geç saate kadar.”

Question 6

What does kadar do here? Are there synonyms?

Accepted Answer

Kadar is a postposition meaning “until, up to” (with time/limit meanings) and it follows a dative phrase. Synonyms with roughly the same function are dek and değin:
- geç saatlere kadar = geç saatlere dek / geç saatlere değin

Question 7

Why is it dışarıda and not dışarı?

Accepted Answer

Kalmak (“to stay/remain”) takes a locative-marked place: X-da/de kalmak. So:
- dışarıda kalmak = to stay outside (correct for location)
- dışarı kalmak tends to mean “to be left out/excluded,” not simply “to remain outside.”
Use dışarı(ya) with motion verbs (çıkmak dışarıya “to go out”).

Question 8

Can I move the adverbials around? Is the word order fixed?

Accepted Answer

It’s flexible. For example:
- Çocukların dışarıda geç saatlere kadar kalmasına izin yok.
- Çocukların geç saatlere kadar dışarıda kalmasına izin yok. (your sentence)
Both are natural. Keep kadar immediately after the time phrase it belongs to (geç saatlere).

Question 9

How else can I express this meaning (with yasak or a verb)?

Accepted Answer

Common rephrasings:
- Çocukların geç saatlere kadar dışarıda kalması yasak. (…is forbidden.)
- Okul, çocukların … kalmasına izin vermiyor. (“The school doesn’t allow …”)
- Çocuklar … kalamaz. (deontic modal; “Children may not/cannot stay …”)

Question 10

Why yok and not değil?

Accepted Answer

Yok is the existential negative of var (“there is/are”). İzin yok = “there is no permission.” Değil negates identity/equative statements (“X is not Y”), which is not what’s happening here.

Question 11

What’s the difference between izin yok and izni yok?

Accepted Answer

- izin yok = “there is no permission” (impersonal/existential).
- izni yok = “his/her/its permission is not there; he/she/it doesn’t have permission.” It requires a possessor: Ali’nin izni yok (“Ali doesn’t have permission”). In our sentence we’re stating that permission (for that action) does not exist in general.

Question 12

How would I ask “Are children allowed to stay out late?”

Accepted Answer

- Çocukların geç saatlere kadar dışarıda kalmasına izin var mı?
Also possible:
- Çocukların … kalmasına izin veriliyor mu? (passive/impersonal “is permission being given?”)

Question 13

If I want to make it specific (“These children are not allowed…”), how do I say it?

Accepted Answer

Add a determiner:
- Bu çocukların geç saatlere kadar dışarıda kalmasına izin yok.
- Bizim çocukların … izin yok. (our children)

Question 14

Is dışarda acceptable instead of dışarıda?

Accepted Answer

Yes. Dışarda is a common colloquial/short form; dışarıda is the standard/written form. Meaning is the same.

Question 15

Any quick pronunciation tips for tricky vowels/consonants here?

Accepted Answer

- The dotless ı in çocukların, dışarıda, kalmasına, izin is a back unrounded vowel [ɯ], not like English “i.”
- ç = “ch” in “church”; ş = “sh.”
- A natural stress pattern is often toward the end of words; yok tends to carry strong stress in this sentence.

Çocukların geç saatlere kadar dışarıda kalmasına izin yok.

Breakdown of Çocukların geç saatlere kadar dışarıda kalmasına izin yok.

Questions & Answers about Çocukların geç saatlere kadar dışarıda kalmasına izin yok.

More from this lesson

Master Turkish — from Çocukların geç saatlere kadar dışarıda kalmasına izin yok to fluency