Breakdown of Wir haben das Lied für den Chor oft proben müssen, aber jetzt klingt es gut.
Questions & Answers about Wir haben das Lied für den Chor oft proben müssen, aber jetzt klingt es gut.
In Wir haben das Lied … proben müssen, haben is used because:
- The main action is müssen (a modal verb) + proben (to rehearse).
- In German, modal verbs (müssen, können, wollen, dürfen, sollen, mögen) always use haben in the perfect tense, not sein.
- sein is only used with:
- Verbs of movement or change of state (gehen, kommen, sterben, werden, etc.)
- The verbs sein and bleiben themselves.
So even though in English you say "we have had to rehearse", in German the structure is wir haben … müssen, always with haben.
This is the “double infinitive” construction in German.
Pattern with a modal in the perfect:
- haben/sein (conjugated) + … + main verb (infinitive)
- modal verb (infinitive)
So:
- Wir haben das Lied … proben müssen.
- haben = auxiliary (perfect tense)
- proben = main verb (infinitive)
- müssen = modal verb (infinitive) at the very end
You do not say:
- ✗ Wir haben das Lied müssen geprobt.
- ✗ Wir haben das Lied gemusst proben.
The participle gemusst exists but is rarely used and normally only when there is no other verb:
- Ich habe das nicht gewusst. (from wissen, not müssen)
- Ich habe nicht gemusst. (rare and sounds odd in many contexts)
With a main verb like proben, the natural and standard structure is:
- Wir haben [Object/Adverbials] proben müssen.
German modal verbs (müssen, können, wollen, etc.) take a bare infinitive without zu.
- Wir müssen das Lied proben. (not: ✗ zu proben)
- In the perfect: Wir haben das Lied proben müssen.
Similarly:
- Ich will gehen. (not: ✗ zu gehen after a modal)
- Wir können kommen.
You add zu with many other verbs:
- Wir versuchen, das Lied zu proben.
- Wir haben vergessen, das Lied zu proben.
But with modal + main verb, it’s always without zu.
Oft (often) is fairly flexible. Your sentence:
- Wir haben das Lied für den Chor oft proben müssen, aber jetzt klingt es gut.
Possible alternatives (all grammatically correct, with slightly different emphasis):
Wir haben das Lied oft für den Chor proben müssen.
– Emphasises das Lied being rehearsed often.Wir haben oft das Lied für den Chor proben müssen.
– Emphasises that we have often had to do this whole action.Wir haben das Lied für den Chor proben müssen – oft.
– Put oft at the end for extra emphasis (more spoken style).
All are acceptable; the original placement before proben müssen is perfectly natural and common.
Because für is a preposition that always takes the accusative case in German.
- für + den Chor (accusative masculine)
- Not für dem Chor (which would be dative and is incorrect here)
Some common accusative-only prepositions:
- für (for)
- durch (through)
- gegen (against)
- ohne (without)
- um (around / at [time])
So you must say:
- für den Chor, für den Lehrer, für die Kinder, für das Kind, etc.
Lied is neuter in German, so the definite article is das:
- das Lied (singular)
- die Lieder (plural)
Gender in German is largely lexical (built into the word), so in most cases, yes, you simply have to memorize it with its article:
- das Lied
- der Chor
- die Stimme (voice)
There are some patterns (e.g. many nouns ending in -chen or -lein are neuter), but Lied just has to be learned as neuter: das Lied.
Yes, Chor is masculine, but the form of the article changes with the case.
Masculine definite article:
- Nominative: der Chor (subject)
- Accusative: den Chor (direct object)
- Dative: dem Chor
- Genitive: des Chores
Here, für forces the accusative, so you must use den:
- für den Chor = for the choir (accusative masculine)
If Chor were the subject, you would say:
- Der Chor klingt gut. – The choir sounds good.
The verb klingen means “to sound” (i.e. how something sounds).
- Jetzt klingt es gut. – Now it sounds good.
Usage:
- Die Musik klingt schön.
- Deine Stimme klingt müde.
- Das Lied klingt besser als vorher.
You could also use:
- Jetzt hört es sich gut an. (more colloquial, also common)
- Jetzt klingt das Lied gut. (more specific subject)
But:
- hören by itself is mostly “to hear”:
- Ich höre das Lied. – I hear the song.
So klingen is exactly the right verb for “to sound (good / bad / strange, etc.)”.
In German, a comma is usually required before coordinating conjunctions like:
- aber (but)
- und (and) – in some cases
- oder (or)
- denn (for, because)
Here you have two independent clauses:
- Wir haben das Lied für den Chor oft proben müssen
- jetzt klingt es gut
They are connected by aber, so a comma is placed before aber:
- …, aber jetzt klingt es gut.
This is similar to English, where a comma before but is very common:
- We had to rehearse the song for the choir often, but now it sounds good.
In klingen + adjective structures, the pattern is:
- Subject – Verb – Adjective
- Es klingt gut.
- Das Lied klingt schön.
- Der Chor klingt laut.
Es is the subject here, so it must come directly after the verb in a simple clause if nothing else is fronted:
- Jetzt klingt es gut.
Gut is a predicate adjective (describing how “it” sounds) and goes after the verb:
- Not: ✗ klingt gut es
Yes, you can say:
- Wir mussten das Lied für den Chor oft proben, aber jetzt klingt es gut.
Difference:
Perfekt (haben + infinitives: wir haben … proben müssen)
- More common in spoken German for past events.
- Feels slightly more conversational.
Präteritum (simple past: wir mussten … proben)
- Very common in written German (books, reports, etc.).
- In everyday speech, Präteritum is used mostly with a few verbs (war, hatte, wollte, konnte, musste, sollte, durfte).
Both versions are correct and mean the same thing in context:
- Wir haben das Lied … proben müssen.
- Wir mussten das Lied … proben.
The choice is mostly about style (spoken vs written) rather than meaning.