Quando vocês tiverem lido o último capítulo, podemos discutir o final do romance policial.

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Questions & Answers about Quando vocês tiverem lido o último capítulo, podemos discutir o final do romance policial.

What tense is tiverem lido, and how is it formed?

Tiverem lido is the future perfect subjunctive (futuro composto do conjuntivo).

It is formed with:
future subjunctive of ter + past participle of the main verb

So for ler (to read):

  • eu tiver lido
  • tu tiveres lido
  • ele / ela / você tiver lido
  • nós tivermos lido
  • vós tiverdes lido (very rare)
  • eles / elas / vocês tiverem lido

In the sentence, vocês tiverem lido = you (plural) have read in a future, hypothetical context.

Why do we use the subjunctive (tiverem lido) after quando here?

In Portuguese (especially European Portuguese), when quando refers to a future event that is not yet real, it normally takes the future subjunctive, not the future indicative:

  • Quando vocês tiverem lido o último capítulo…
    = When you have read the last chapter (in the future)…

The action is:

  • in the future
  • uncertain in the sense that it hasn’t happened yet
  • a condition for the second clause (podemos discutir…)

So quando + ação futura ainda não realizada → futuro do conjuntivo (here, in its compound form: tiverem lido).

What is the difference between Quando vocês tiverem lido o último capítulo and Quando vocês lerem o último capítulo?

Both are correct and natural, but there is a nuance:

  • Quando vocês lerem o último capítulo, podemos discutir…
    Uses the simple future subjunctive (lerem). It already implies completion of the action in context.

  • Quando vocês tiverem lido o último capítulo, podemos discutir…
    Uses the future perfect subjunctive (tiverem lido), which explicitly emphasizes that the reading will be finished before the discussion.

In many everyday situations they are almost interchangeable.
Using tiverem lido sounds just a bit more explicit about the idea: after you have finished reading it.

Could we use the present indicative and say Quando vocês lêem / leem o último capítulo…?

Not in this context.

  • Quando vocês leem o último capítulo… (present indicative) usually describes:
    • a habit or repeated action:
      • Quando vocês leem o último capítulo, ficam sempre surpreendidos.
        = When you read the last chapter, you’re always surprised.

Here we are talking about one specific future situation, so Portuguese prefers the future subjunctive:
Quando vocês lerem / tiverem lido o último capítulo…

Why is podemos discutir (present) used instead of a future form like poderemos discutir?

In Portuguese, the present indicative is very often used with a future meaning, especially in the second clause of a quando sentence:

  • Quando vocês tiverem lido o último capítulo, podemos discutir o final…
    = When you’ve read the last chapter, we can discuss the ending.

You could say poderemos discutir, and it’s grammatically correct, but it sounds a bit more formal or heavy in everyday speech.
Using podemos here is natural and typical in European Portuguese.

What does vocês mean here, and how does it affect the verb form tiverem?

Vocês means “you” (plural) — addressing more than one person.

In European Portuguese:

  • tu = you (singular, informal)
  • vocês = you (plural, generally informal/neutral)
  • vós = archaic/liturgical “you (plural)”, almost never used in modern speech

The verb must agree with vocês in the 3rd person plural:

  • vocês tiverem lido
  • vocês lerem
  • vocês podem discutir

So tiverem is the 3rd person plural future subjunctive of ter, matching vocês.

Could we omit vocês and just say Quando tiverem lido o último capítulo…?

Yes. Subject pronouns are often dropped in Portuguese when the verb form makes the subject clear:

  • Quando tiverem lido o último capítulo, podemos discutir o final do romance policial.

This is natural and common in both spoken and written European Portuguese, especially if it’s already clear from context who “you” are.

Why do we say o último capítulo instead of just último capítulo?

Portuguese uses the definite article much more often than English.

  • o último capítulo = the last chapter (a specific, known chapter)
  • Without the article (∅ último capítulo) would sound unnatural here.

Because the listener already knows which book and its structure are being referred to, the chapter is definite, so Portuguese requires o.

What is the difference between o final and o fim? Why o final do romance policial here?

Both fim and final can mean “end”, but there are tendencies:

  • fim often refers to the end as a point in time or a very broad end:

    • o fim do dia – the end of the day
    • o fim do mundo – the end of the world
  • final often refers more to the ending/last part of something, especially a story, film, book:

    • o final do filme – the ending of the film
    • o final do romance policial – the ending of the detective novel

Here, o final do romance policial is the most natural way to say “the ending of the detective novel”. O fim do romance policial is possible but less idiomatic in this specific context.

Does romance policial mean “romantic police story”? What exactly does it mean?

No, romance policial does not mean a romantic story.

In European Portuguese:

  • romance = a novel (a long work of fiction)
  • policial = related to crime, detectives, police work

So romance policial = detective novel / crime novel.

Compare:

  • um romance histórico – a historical novel
  • um romance romântico – a romantic novel
  • uma novela – usually a soap opera / TV serial, not “novel” in the literary sense.
Why is lido used here, and not something like leram or lendo?

Lido is the past participle of ler.

The structure tiverem lido is a compound tense:

  • ter (in the future subjunctive) + past participle
  • tiverem lido ≈ “(you) have read” in a future-hypothetical sense

You cannot use:

  • leram (simple past) → that refers to a completed past action, not future
  • lendo (gerund) → would mean “while reading”, not “after you have read”

So for “when you have read” in the future, Portuguese uses quando + future perfect subjunctive:
Quando vocês tiverem lido…

Can we change the word order and say Podemos discutir o final do romance policial quando vocês tiverem lido o último capítulo?

Yes, that is completely correct and natural:

  • Podemos discutir o final do romance policial quando vocês tiverem lido o último capítulo.

Both orders are fine:

  1. Quando vocês tiverem lido o último capítulo, podemos discutir o final…
  2. Podemos discutir o final… quando vocês tiverem lido o último capítulo.

The meaning is the same; it’s just a matter of emphasis and flow.