Breakdown of Seyirci oyunu beğenmeyince bile alkışlamak nezakettir.
Questions & Answers about Seyirci oyunu beğenmeyince bile alkışlamak nezakettir.
In Turkish, a singular noun can refer to a whole category or group in a general statement.
- seyirci literally: spectator / audience member
- In a sentence like Seyirci oyunu beğenmeyince..., it really means:
- “the audience (in general)” or
- “a spectator / the spectator” as a type of person.
If you say Seyirciler oyunu beğenmeyince..., it would emphasize “the individual spectators / the group of people” more concretely, but the original generic, proverb-like tone is more natural with the singular seyirci.
oyunu is oyun + -u (accusative case suffix):
- oyun = play
- oyun-u = “the play” as a specific direct object.
The verb beğenmek normally takes its direct object in the accusative when that object is specific or already known:
- Oyunu beğenmedim. = I didn’t like the play.
- Oyun beğenmedim. = I didn’t like (any) play / plays. (more indefinite)
In your sentence, we’re clearly talking about a specific play the audience has just seen, so oyunu is used.
beğenmeyince is built like this:
- beğen- = to like
- -me- = negative marker → beğenme- = “not like”
- -y- = buffer consonant (for pronunciation)
- -ince = “when / as / once (something happens)”
So beğenmeyince = “when (someone) does not like (it)”.
Functionally it means:
- “when (they) don’t like it”
- and in this sentence, with bile, it takes on the sense of “even when / even if they don’t like it”.
The subject is understood from context: seyirci.
Turkish often omits repeated subjects. The pattern is:
- Seyirci oyunu beğenmeyince, bile alkışlamak nezakettir.
= When the audience doesn’t like the play, it is politeness to clap anyway.
You can think of it as:
- “Seyirci, oyunu beğenmeyince...”
→ “(The audience), when (they) don’t like the play...”
You don’t repeat seyirci inside beğenmeyince; it’s implicitly the same subject.
bile means “even” and it focuses whatever it follows.
- beğenmeyince bile ≈ “even when (they) don’t like (it)” / “even if (they) don’t like (it)”.
The placement gives us this focus:
- [beğenmeyince] bile alkışlamak
→ to clap even in the case of not liking it.
If you moved bile elsewhere, the emphasis changes:
- Alkışlamak bile nezakettir.
→ “Even clapping is politeness.” (focus on clapping, not on not liking.)
So in the original, bile directly modifies the “not liking” condition, not the act of clapping itself.
In Turkish, the -mak/-mek form acts as a verbal noun, similar to English “to clap” or “clapping” used as a subject:
- Alkışlamak nezakettir.
= To clap / Clapping is politeness.
Here, alkışlamak is grammatically the subject of nezakettir:
- (Alkışlamak) – what is politeness?
- → Clapping is.
If you said:
- Alkışlar. = “(He/She/They) clap(s).” (a simple present action)
- Alkışlamak gerekir. = “One should clap.” (modal “should/must”)
The original is making a general, slightly proverbial statement about what counts as politeness, so the infinitive-as-noun is natural.
Breakdown:
- nezaket = politeness (noun)
- -tir = copular suffix meaning “is / are” (formal, often for general truths). After t, the d of -dir devoices to t, so you see -tir.
So:
- nezakettir ≈ “is politeness / is an act of politeness.”
Compare:
- Alkışlamak nezaket. – Colloquial, missing the “is” marker; sounds incomplete/formal writing would avoid this.
- Alkışlamak nezakettir. – Neutral/standard, especially in written or careful speech.
The -tir adds a feeling of definition or general rule:
“Alkışlamak nezakettir” sounds like a rule or maxim: Clapping is politeness.
Turkish often uses abstract nouns where English uses adjectives.
- nezaket = politeness
- nazik = polite (adjective)
Both are possible, but the nuance changes:
Alkışlamak nezakettir.
→ “Clapping is (an act of) politeness.”
(focus: this behavior belongs to the category of politeness.)Alkışlamak naziktir.
→ “Clapping is polite.”
(grammatically fine and understandable; sounds slightly less proverbial.)
The version with nezakettir sounds more like stating a social rule or norm.
Yes, that sentence is also correct, but with a different nuance.
beğenmeyince bile
- literally: even when they don’t like (it)
- feels more like “in the situation where they don’t like it”.
beğenmese bile (aorist conditional)
- literally: even if they don’t like (it)
- more hypothetical / conditional.
In practice, both can be translated “even if they don’t like the play”, but:
- beğenmeyince bile leans toward an actual recurring situation (“when this happens”).
- beğenmese bile leans slightly more toward a hypothetical possibility (“even if that were the case”).
Turkish word order is somewhat flexible, but bile is very sensitive to position because it focuses the word or phrase immediately before it.
- oyunu beğenmeyince bile alkışlamak...
→ “to clap even when (they) don’t like the play...” (focus on the not liking condition)
If you move bile:
Seyirci bile oyunu beğenmeyince...
→ “Even the audience, when they don’t like the play...” (even the audience, as opposed to others)Alkışlamak bile nezakettir.
→ “Even clapping is politeness.” (as opposed to other actions)
Your suggested “bile oyunu beğenmeyince” is grammatical but sounds awkward and unclear in focus; native speakers would virtually always attach bile right after the phrase they want to emphasize, here beğenmeyince.
Both are correct, but:
Seyirci... (singular)
- reads as a generic type: “the spectator / the audience (as a category)”
- feels more like a proverb or general rule.
Seyirciler... (plural)
- refers more concretely to actual people in the audience.
- feels more like a comment about a real group: “When the audience members don’t like the play, clapping is still politeness.”
The core meaning (“it’s polite to clap even when the audience doesn’t like the play”) stays the same, but the singular version has a more general, proverbial tone.